Ep 102: You're First. Now What?
Episode 102
Published Jan 20, 2025
Last updated Feb 18, 2026
Duration: 26:07
Episode Summary
What would you do if you were the first to arrive at an active shooter event? The first arriving law enforcement officer and the first arriving fire company have specific duties that must be done. Their actions affect the response and the outcome. That’s today’s topic.
Episode Notes
In today’s episode our panel discusses the duties and responsibilities of the first arriving officers to an active shooter event. Our panel provides critical insights into the management of active shooter situations and the crucial moments when first responders arrive and make initial entry. From the initial approach, to providing comprehensive size-up reports, to managing resources effectively, this episode offers essential knowledge for law enforcement, fire and EMS personnel to effectively manage these chaotic situations.
View this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/CHu1LEtbBvg
Transcript
Bill Godfrey:You've been dispatched to an active shooter event and now you're first on scene. What do you do? That's today's topic. Stick around.
Welcome to the Active Shooter Incident Management Podcast. My name is Bill Godfrey, your podcast host. I am joined by three of my fellow instructors here at the National Center for a great emergency response. Across the table from me, Terrence Weems on the law enforcement side. Good to have you Terrence, sir.
Terrance Weems:
Glad to be here.
Bill Godfrey:
And Kami Maertz also from the enforcement side.
Kami Maertz:
Good afternoon.
Bill Godfrey:
And over here on my side of the table on the fire EMS side, Scott, Scotty Formankiewicz, back in the house again.
Scott Formankiewicz:
I'm back.
Bill Godfrey:
Good to have you.
Scott Formankiewicz:
I'm on the good side.
Bill Godfrey:
Good to have you back.
Okay, so today's topic, we're gonna talk about those first arriving duties of the very first officer on the law enforcement side and the first company, engine company, presumably, but the first company arriving on the fire EMS side. So let's say we're going to a report of an active shooter event at a school, a high school shots fired, we believe in the lunchroom or in the cafeteria. Something. Something along those lines. So let's work from there. What are the things going through your mind as the first arriving officer?
Kami Maertz:
So the first arriving officer, the first thing I wanna do is give that LCAN report, right? So I'm gonna identify the location that I'm going into. So if I'm going to that cafeteria, I'm gonna let 'em know the location I'm at, the location I'm going into. I'm gonna give 'em the conditions, right? So I'm going to let 'em know do I have shots fired? Do I have people running? Do I have any injured down that I can immediately see?
Then I'm gonna tell my actions. I'm making entry, I'm going after the active threat. Whatever action that I'm going to go do, I'm going to let them know that this is what I'm, my intentions are. And then my needs. So what am I going to need from those original or the rest of the arriving officers coming up? What do I need from them? What do I need them to know before I go in and start dealing with that active threat?
Terrance Weems:
And not to take for granted for some people because everybody's different, right? But wanna make sure even prior to getting there, you get that initial call. Most of us are thinking either, oh my God, or this isn't real.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
Right? But on your way there, you wanna make sure what I teach our folk is pull off, get your vest, your rifle vest, get those plates on, and then also get your rifle ready. That way once you get there on scene, you're not being so caught up in emotion that you're leaving those things behind and you're not able to be as much help
Kami Maertz:
Yeah.
Terrance Weems:
As you can.
Kami Maertz:
And I think that when you're saying that you don't believe it's happening, right? Because unfortunately we do deal with a lot of calls now a lot of swatting calls and things like that. So that is your initial thought. That is another thing though, is you get your gear on get ready, but important for that LCAN, that size up report when you first arrive on scene so that everyone else knows this is real.
Terrance Weems:
Exactly.
Kami Maertz:
Right? We do have shots fired or we do have people fleeing. We have signs that show that this is a real call. Get everyone prepared. Let all of them know when we're talking about the hot zone, right? So we're gonna identify the hot zone. We want everyone else knowing when they're coming in, what area we're at and and what area we're considering that hot zone. We wanna go really large with that hot zone, the entire school, whatever area you're at. So the other arriving officers and first responders know what area is unsafe for them to make entry into. A lot of officers get killed obviously on that initial, when they're responding. That's where we're getting killed at. And that's what we need to know and put out there where we're at. And even we're talking about location, where we're making entry at. That's important for everyone to know. How did you get in safely?
Terrance Weems:
Right.
Kami Maertz:
Where did you go in safely?
Terrance Weems:
And and being as specific as possible, right? So one of the things that we have a habit of doing is keeping information to ourselves, that pertinent information is really, really important. And it's absolutely worthless if you are the only person that knows it. If you're not getting that information out to the people that are coming up behind you.
Kami Maertz:
Yep.
Terrance Weems:
You're not doing anybody any favors and you're putting them at risk.
Kami Maertz:
Yep. And that's that panic, right? That panic sets in. You show up and you're like, oh no, this is real.
Terrance Weems:
Right?
Kami Maertz:
And panic. And you're just running in there and, and it does. It puts you at a deficit 'cause nobody knows where you went into and what you're seeing, what you're hearing puts everybody else off guard too 'cause they don't know what they, what they can do to help you.
Terrance Weems:
Yeah.
Kami Maertz:
What they're walking into.
Terrance Weems:
And, and the crazy part is, and I shouldn't say crazy, but I think it's something to think about. If I'm talking and communicating, then I'm breathing. And if I'm breathing, then I'm thinking,
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
But if I'm not doing either of those two things, I'm probably in black. And I, I have,
Kami Maertz:
Yes,
Terrance Weems:
I am so far out of control that I'm not gonna be a help to the people that I'm there to help. So if I'm being intentional about communicating on that radio to the people that are coming up behind me, making me breathe, making me think, then I'm able to do the job that I'm there for.
Bill Godfrey:
So I want to re-hit this because I think Kami, you gave a excellent summary of the size up report, locations, conditions, actions, needs. And Terrance, you made a really good point about arriving prepared to fight as, as Kami as you pointed out the, the bulk of law enforcement officers getting shot in active shooter events are being shot on the exterior. Yeah. Either on approach or something. Something on the exterior. So arriving prepared to fight is important.
It's also a little bit controversial. Not everybody understands that. And certainly a lot of the civilian population says, Hey, you know that 30 seconds you took to pull over and stop and do that was 30 seconds earlier you might have been able to get in and, and save a life or stop the shooter.
And while I understand that argument, I, I always use the analogy on the fire side. If we roll, if, if we were out already in the truck and we get sent to a structure fire call, you can't put all of your gear on while the truck is in motion. I mean, you physically don't have space and it's unsafe to, to do all of that. So when you arrive at the scene, if it's one of those that you were already on the road, the very first thing you gotta do is put your gear on. And so literally you could have the veritable person in the front yard going, you know, my so-and-so's inside, you gotta save 'em. You gotta save 'em. The first thing you're gonna do is spend the 30 seconds to get your gear on. Because it's not a survivable environment.
Kami Maertz:
Exactly.
Bill Godfrey:
If we don't get that protective gear on, how are we supposed to save a life if we're becoming part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution. And I think the same applies here in law enforcement. I think our law enforcement leadership and our elected officials need to understand that, so that when tragedy does occur, and this question does come up in the press conference, because it always does that you're prepared to kind of answer it.
Now, Terrence, you mentioned getting the rifle plates, getting your rifle ready, some carry go bags, extra ammo. What are the, what are the kinds of things, maybe tools for breaching, what are the kinds of things in your mind when your trooper pulls over for that 30 seconds to get the gear? What all do you want them getting geared up and ready to go?
Terrance Weems:
So we're making sure that my troop, wherever you carry your equipment, you, you know where that's at. So for me, I'm gonna make sure I'm getting my rifle plates out of my, out of my trunk, getting my go bag. Not just for the extra ammunition, but also my first aid bag or my IFAK kit, making sure that I have those things ready. They're in the front seat. So once I make it to scene, so if I'm doing it a mile out from the location or I'm doing it right in front of the school, here's the difference or the business or the church or the house.
The difference is, whereas I pull up in front of the house and I get hit with a rifle round to the chest, that would've been survivable without that. Now they have the three people that are inside that structure that are injured and then I'm injured as well and I didn't get it. I didn't even get into the building to help them. We wanna make sure that you have all of those things ready so you can be a help to the people that you're required to be the help to.
Kami Maertz:
And some of the things that we have, I know your go bag you're talking about, we have the same is a tactical bag where we have tourniquets, we have quick clot, things like that. So that if I do go down on x, I can self-treat, right? So that other people can worry about the, the other survivors inside. Because they're likely going to have to pass me if they're still an active threat.
And so that I'm not, if I do become part of the problem, then I'm not contributing to the problem. I'm, I, I can't have those things. But it's important for me to prepare myself, have that kit ready to go and don't be part of the problem. Right? Don't make yourself part of the problem. Don't show up without a vest. All of those things that you have to do that you have to stop and and prepare yourself for before you get to that scene.
Terrance Weems:
Yeah. And one of our instructors recalls a an active shooter incident that he went up to. And just because he makes it to scene and he sees everybody else running in, it is impossible, mentally, for you now to stop.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah.
Terrance Weems:
And now get your rifle and get your bag, get your vest. When you see everybody else running in.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah. You're in trauma thinking.
Terrance Weems:
You are, your thinking is completely different at that point. And now you feel it's you're obligation to make your way in there regardless of the fact that I'm putting myself at a higher level of risk without the ability to protect myself.
Bill Godfrey:
So I'm gonna put a pin on the law enforcement response here for a second then we're gonna come back to that Scott on the fire EMS side, you know, your first arriving unit, probably an ambulance and at least an engine company not gonna go straight to the scene?
Scott Formankiewicz:
No. Nope. So the first thing they're gonna wanna do, I mean obviously we're gonna pull over and we're gonna pull over somewhere and thinking of this event and what it is, I know we use the analogy of a school. So understanding a lot of people go to a school. So there are gonna be a lot of resources that are coming. So the first thing that we can do is we can actually pull off to the side. We can pick an area which is our staging area that is gonna be crucial. Not only picking the staging area, but thinking of it, is it big enough for the resources? But then we have to notify dispatch to allow all follow on units, including law enforcement to go to this area. Now that's gonna begin diverting people into that area and prevent that over, over convergence of resources onto the specific site. That's kind of the number one thing. And establishing it, noting it.
Secondary to that is understanding if that first in company officer knows where this is gonna go, there are other critical tasks that need to be fulfilled. So being able to recognize those right away and start assigning, okay, I'm going to need somebody to be triage. You're gonna be triage, I'm gonna be transport, you're gonna be staging manager, assigning those roles out right away, not deploying 'em, which is the big thing. Don't deploy, stand there waiting. Then when medical branch gets there and says, okay, I'm medical branch, I'm doing, you know, establishing this. Okay. They call the staging, alright, staging area set here. I've already got one ambulance for you, I've got a triage and I've got a transport. A lot of that work is taken off of them.
So that first in company officer on the fire side can really set the trajectory for the rest of that incident. Just in the first couple minutes
Bill Godfrey:
And save time.
Scott Formankiewicz:
Yes, absolutely.
Bill Godfrey:
Yes. And save a lot of time.
Okay. So that's going on at the staging area. 'cause let's face it, those first couple of minutes, law enforcement isn't even sure what they've got yet.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah.
Bill Godfrey:
So we're not rolling into that hot scene on the fire EMS side. It's not that we, we won't be going in or we won't be going down range, but there is a phase to this. Law enforcement's gotta get a handle around what they've got and determine that it's, it's a, a reasonable situation for fire and EMS to deploy into.
So that's happening. We get the staging area kind of picked and sorted out. Make sure that the fire department dispatch lets law enforcement dispatch know, hey we got this staging area picked.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
So meanwhile that your first officers downrange has made entry, we use an example of the cafeteria at school, they've made entry, now you got your second, third, fourth arriving officers. What are the things that they need to be thinking about and doing and how do they communicate with that first arriving officer? How does, how does all of that unfold to make sure it's a team response?
Kami Maertz:
So when they're arriving on scene, they need to be obviously communicating with that con that the first officer on scene should have already communicated themselves as tactical or contact team one, I'm sorry. They should say I'm going in, even if single response I'm contact team one, they have created that. Those second to fourth arriving officers who are arriving on scene are gonna communicate with them and co-locate with that person so that they can form that actual contact team to progress forward depending on what that officer where he's at in the active threat, rescue, clear, if it's possible that he's already taken down the active threat, then he might split that team into two separate teams. So you have two on the active threat and you have two going back to deal with the, the survivors who are injured.
And so that's decision that that contact team, in that leadership role of that first contact team to gonna say, I need one to come with me. You're gonna come with me, be contact team one, the other two, I need y'all to be contact team two, y'all are gonna go and set a CCP up or start thinking in what role you're at, depending on where you're at in that pro progression from active threat to rescue.
Terrance Weems:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
And that, that could be a lot of pressure for an officer, even an experienced officer. But if it's somebody that's two or three years on the job, a lot of pressure.
Terrance Weems:
It is a lot of pressure. And the strange thing is that that two year or one year officer may be more trained up than that seasoned officer. Right? Because that young person recently came outta the academy, recently did some very fresh active shooter type training. They may be the one and and that's why you have to leave your ego at the door.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
If I'm not trained up, I'm gonna look to you for some guidance.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
And making sure it is so much more. And you have to instill that confidence in your people and you have to do that regularly. So when they do get in that situation that they feel that they have the ability to overcome.
Kami Maertz:
And on the other side of that too, if it is one of the, you know, second to fourth officers that arrive on scene, right? Prior to us making that tactical, they're arriving on scene. If they're realizing that con that first person is not going to be able to take a leadership position or they're freezing, it's up to them to kind of get the, you know, get everything back on mission, right? Is to come in and start taking a leadership. Somebody has to take ownership. Some somebody has to take a leadership. No matter where you're at in that first contact team, somebody has to start putting this train on the tracks.
Bill Godfrey:
So let's go down that rabbit hole for just a second. Imagine your first, your literal first arriving officer that made a solo entry and went through the door. You've either lost contact with 'em, they're not responding or maybe they didn't really do a good job of getting a, maybe they didn't do a good job of the size up report. They didn't explain things. Well, you're the second, third or fourth arriving, you're, you're coming in that immediately follow on stack. Go down a little bit about how to put that back on track. You used that phrase, we gotta put this back on track. How do you do that?
Terrance Weems:
So I believe in that second group of people, that third, fourth, second, third, fourth group of people, somebody there is gonna have to be the mouthpiece for that group. Right? A, we have lost contact with with contact team one, we're gonna be looking for him, giving them, this is what I have now if I haven't heard a size up report, if I haven't received any information, if I know absolutely nothing is my responsibility, or our responsibility, to make sure that that information is getting back to dispatch, getting back to those folk who are on their way so they'll know what they're running into. And now it's our responsibility too to seek out that active threat. Right? To do the rescue that's needed to make sure that we're clearing if we have made it to that point and to communicate those things with our people.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah. Don't, don't allow things to continue to go sideways just because they're sideways. Right? Somebody has to stand up, there has to be somebody who says this is what we need to do. And more than likely the other people are gonna be very grateful that somebody's standing up and saying, you're giving us direction in some way that we're going to and be able to communicate those things. If it's not done, go to your checklist and do 'em. Finish that checklist. Right? Go down the checklist. There's a reason that we have a checklist. There's a reason that we do those things in your training. So go through your mental report of saying like, what do I need to do? What hasn't been done? What do we do? Somebody take responsibility and get it done.
Terrance Weems:
Right? What, what information is lacking? If I were not here, what would I need?
Kami Maertz:
What would I need? Yeah.
Terrance Weems:
Right? So what would I need to be successful in this situation? And right now I don't have anything. So these are the things that, that I need. I need a size up report. I need to know where the hot zone is. I need to know how many people that I have come across from the entry of this building up until where I am now. How many people are injured, right? How many people have been shot? Give that information so we can make sure that all of our partners are aware of what's going on. And, and then you have, what if you have other people coming?
So here we are. You got four people already in the building, five people already in the building and you know that you have a hundred people more coming. We already know that there is a staging that has already been set up. Everybody cannot go have fun at the party. Right? Somebody gotta stay home and babysit, so to speak. Right? So if I know that as I tell my folks, somebody gotta be the trooper, right? Somebody has to stand up and take responsibility for what's going on. Somebody's gonna have to take a step back and be that fifth man to take now a step back. Think about what we have so we can direct the remainder of our resources. Nah, you don't come here boss. Everybody's going, everybody is going to staging. Make sure everybody goes to staging. We got enough people in the building right now. We wanna make sure we have our assets collected.
Kami Maertz:
And taking on that, when you take that ownership, you're tactical now. So using that moniker saying, I'm tactical. That way when they're calling out, they're not having to remember who it is, what number you have, right? You're tactical. It's very easy in a stressful situation to remember tactical. And those contact teams can call back and they now know who's in charge. They know who they're working for now. And so that's accomplish that mission of you know, who's response or who you're responsible to.
And then you can move on to your checklist what's your responsibilities, right? You're debriefing, so you've gotten it, you've redirected everybody to staging, you're starting to go down your checklist. What do I need so that I can, or what do they need down range? What do they have going on so that I can get additional resources effectively down range.
Terrance Weems:
And, and that's crazy, right? So we changed numbers. So some of the people in my district changed numbers last week and it wasn't stressful at all. So somebody that may have been 13-123 is now 13-224.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah.
Terrance Weems:
That person does not know their number and in a less than stressful situation. Can you imagine them trying to remember somebody else's number in a stressful situ?
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
No, I'm tactical. So you don't say it like this over the radio, but basically you're saying it in this manner. I'm tactical, you call me, you call me tactical. Right? Make sure you know what the role is. The role is not just that. The role is that role, not the individual. Right?
Kami Maertz:
Yeah. And, and and it really does, it lessens that com, that chaos, that confusion. And that's really what we're trying to do is we're trying to limit communication failures. We're trying to keep everything streamlined as as quick as we can to get people organized and effectively down down range.
Terrance Weems:
Oh yeah. And if we're able to do that versus you have 20 people inside a building.
Kami Maertz:
Yeah.
Terrance Weems:
And not knowing where anybody's at. And especially because our radios work in the steel and concrete buildings all the time, especially in the basement, you know, that's
Bill Godfrey:
Sarcasm, right? Yeah,
Terrance Weems:
Yeah, yeah. Little sarcasm. But now we have a person who is missing in the situation and if nobody took a step back to recognize who's in the building and what their last location is or was, I should say, now we are spending, again, we're wasting time doing something that didn't have to be when we could have been helping other people.
Kami Maertz:
I mean you're saying it, you know, take be the trooper, right? Somebody has to be the trooper. That's important. Even if you do have, say if you get on scene and you have 20 people down range, right? And everybody's kind of going crazy. That 21st person needs to come on and be like, I'm tactical now. I'm now going to get this train back on.
So even if it has derailed, the biggest thing I have seen is once it derails, then nobody wants to take ownership. Everyone's like, wow, that train is is loose. I don't want any part of it. Instead of saying, Nope, we still have to save lives. Right?
Terrance Weems:
Exactly.
Kami Maertz:
That's the mission is we have to save lives is being that 21st person coming along and saying, I'm now tactical. I'm taking responsibility for this so that everybody else can start getting in line. We start resourcing and you can start calling down, be like, Hey, I need y'all to start making contact team. Start letting me know. Debrief me once you form those contact team so that you can start getting some organization to what you have going on.
Terrance Weems:
And it's not like anything that they wouldn't have done in a normal situation.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Terrance Weems:
They would've done this. The only thing that has changed is the title of the incident.
Kami Maertz:
That's it.
Terrance Weems:
Any other time they would've done it. But because it is an active shooter, now all of a sudden folk don't wanna put their draws on. Right?
Kami Maertz:
That's it. Right? Is it? Yes. And it is. It's taking, that's the whole thing though, is everybody's hoping that somebody else comes along and takes that position. And so there has to be somebody who's a leader and says, I'm taking it.
Terrance Weems:
Oh yeah.
Kami Maertz:
I'm taking it. We're not letting it get further down.
Bill Godfrey:
And I think you guys are hitting on one of the central tenets and purposes of the active shooter incident management checklist is, look, these are the things that are supposed to get done. And generally speaking, these are the things that are assigned to. So one of you said earlier, Terrance I think you said this, if the first arriving officer's giving you nothing, this this first arriving officer duties still have to get done. It doesn't matter whether you were the second, third, or fourth.
Terrance Weems:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
If if the checklist items under the guy before me aren't done,
Terrance Weems:
Then I do it.
Bill Godfrey:
I do it.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
Or I get somebody else to, you know, I sign somebody to do it, but it's gotta get done. And the same is true for our fifth man who becomes tactical as you put out. Look, the idea behind calling it the fifth officer or the fifth man is that generally speaking, that's the point of the response in which this position needs to get stood up. Realistically, it's rarely the fifth officer that actually grabs it. It is way down in the stack, but somebody's gotta do it. And if the first law enforcement supervisor rolls up and tactical hasn't been established, guess what all those tactical duties gotta get done.
Terrance Weems:
Right.
Kami Maertz:
Exactly.
Bill Godfrey:
So somebody's gotta, like you said, somebody's gotta grab a hold of this runaway train.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
And say, well this is gonna suck, but some, you know, it's, it's my day in the barrel and I'm gonna have to get this done.
Kami Maertz:
Hundred percent. We have to save lives. That's what we have to do. Right. So we have to get somebody in that position. Somebody has to raise their hand and say it's gonna be me.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. And once that tactical position gets stood up, generally that's begins to be the point at which you're starting to get at least some awareness of what's going on. inside. You're starting to get the, a sense of the scope, which obviously we want to pass to fire and EMS as quickly as we can, but it's, it's right in that point where tactical getting stood up, that first law enforcement supervisors getting there. Hopefully your battalion chief's getting there as medical, but if not, it falls to the company officer to take medical and get, get her done so that we can get triage and transport up to where tactical is. And they can work the problem together. Did I miss anything?
Kami Maertz:
No, I think that's the biggest thing is, is finishing on that right though. So when tactical gets there, they do, they have to worry about what's down range. But it is imperative also like you're saying, right. To look to the left and right and be like, I don't have my triage and transport and to rectify that, get that unified command down there. So you're going to look around and realize this is what I need to complete the mission is I need these resources there. So not to forget about that. 'cause that's imperative too is that you are not trying to do it by yourself. You're not trying to live on an island by yourself and just calling back to medical branch that you make sure those, those resources are getting down range to you.
Bill Godfrey:
And here's... Sorry, go ahead Terrance.
Terrance Weems:
I'm sorry if, if you're trying to do that by yourself, you're gonna fail.
Bill Godfrey:
Oh yeah.
Terrance Weems:
And you're putting people at risk unnecessarily. So use the help that's there for you. Make sure you get it there if it's not.
Bill Godfrey:
And I was just perfect segue pro tip here. For those that are listening pro tip, when you are the triage and transport person in staging from fire and EMS and it's your time to go forward, get a cop assigned to you, to escort you forward, to take you forward in one vehicle, probably the police vehicle. Get up, let them get you and deliver you to tactical and then that police officer stays as an aid to tactical.
Kami Maertz:
Absolutely.
Bill Godfrey:
Because it's a tough job.
Kami Maertz:
You're gonna need it. Yeah.
Bill Godfrey:
You're gonna need the help
Terrance Weems:
For sure.
Kami Maertz:
Right?
Bill Godfrey:
So you want tactical to love you as the triage and transport. Bring him another cop to help.
Kami Maertz:
Yes. We brought you a friend.
Bill Godfrey:
We brought you a friend.
Kami Maertz:
We've come to help. And we brought a friend.
Bill Godfrey:
We've brought you a friend.
Kami Maertz:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
Alright, well, hey, this was, I think a great summary of the, difficulty and the sequencing of the jobs of the first few arriving people. Thank you for engaging this and the passion for having this conversation. Appreciate you guys coming down in.
If you have questions about this or any other topic or you have some specific challenges that you'd like to discuss with us, please feel free to give us a call at the office or shoot us over an email at info@c3pathways.com. That's I-n-f-o@c3pathways.com.
We look forward to talking to you the next time. Thank you to our producer, Karla Torres, and until then, stay safe.